New bid goes in for Whiteley

[StephenR]

It is recognised that there is a shortage of hotel rooms in the Portsmouth area (although no one has yet to tell me why people would want to stay...)

We now have a number of tourist attractions which no self resepcting japanses tourist should miss.

First is Ye 'No Bus' Bus lane a £800k folley created by a lord of the manor who wanted to stop stagecoaches besmirching his bowling green
Secondly Ye Gull Coppice Maze - you are given a map and 60 minutes to buy a cheeseburger, a newspaper and get a boil lanced.
Thirdly Ye Road to Nowhere or Whiteley way - remnants of an ancient civilisation, now long gone, who tried to build a road from Fareham Port to Edinburgh but were sadly all wiped out by boredom and lethargy.


It's advertised as a 'unique' experience ( no alcohol allowed)

[StephenR]

I've read some of the online LDF and I see we have the same ideals as we had back in the nineties:

The Council is promoting a development strategy which will accommodate much of the development requirement in large strategic allocations at Winchester, Whiteley and Waterlooville. This will ensure that development is of a sufficient scale to incorporate employment and facilities within the site and that it is located in the most sustainable locations, helping to reduce the netravel. Similarly, the settlement hierarchy for the Market Towns and Rural Areas favours development in those settlements which have the greatestof employment, facilities and population, and have a regular public transporservice.

It's the idea that you live where you work and all facilities are at hand. I suppose the question remains if this is going to be anything other than an 'ideal' it needs some sort of enforcement or enticement to work yet I dont see any legal framework for achieving it. Do we give local quotas for employees to firms. Reduce busines park parking? Council Tax reductions for local workers or even a congestion charge. If it didn't work last time why will it work this time.?

[StephenR]

That Fareham Borough Council objects to the proposed redevelopment of Whiteley
centre on the grounds that the proposal:
(a) Will severely affect the vitality and viability of Fareham Town Centre and
undermine its ability to function as a Secondary Regional Centre in
accordance with the South East Plan.
(b) Will severely affect the delivery of an appropriately scaled and diverse district
centre for the future North of Fareham Strategic Development Area required
by the South East Plan.
(c) Is over-scaled with regard to the purpose and function of the centre to serve
the needs of the local Whiteley population.

Not surprisingly Woodward is objecting to the change in use of Whiteley Village , even though he criticises what's there. I was wondering why there was such a flurry of activity on WF and nothing on here. If the stategic plan is to reduce traffic then surely Whiteley residents would be making less journeys to Fareham anyway. Regardless of the rights or wrongs we have again two councils with opposing ideas and we residents stuck in the middle. How much did Fareham spend on consultants DTZ I wonder and how much I wonder will the two councils spend on fighting this. Dont worry though it's only our money

[figgy]

That Fareham Borough Council objects to the proposed redevelopment of Whiteley
centre on the grounds that the proposal:
(a) Will severely affect the vitality and viability of Fareham Town Centre and
undermine its ability to function as a Secondary Regional Centre in
accordance with the South East Plan.
(b) Will severely affect the delivery of an appropriately scaled and diverse district
centre for the future North of Fareham Strategic Development Area required
by the South East Plan.
(c) Is over-scaled with regard to the purpose and function of the centre to serve
the needs of the local Whiteley population.

Not surprisingly Woodward is objecting to the change in use of Whiteley Village , even though he criticises what's there. I was wondering why there was such a flurry of activity on WF and nothing on here. If the stategic plan is to reduce traffic then surely Whiteley residents would be making less journeys to Fareham anyway. Regardless of the rights or wrongs we have again two councils with opposing ideas and we residents stuck in the middle. How much did Fareham spend on consultants DTZ I wonder and how much I wonder will the two councils spend on fighting this. Dont worry though it's only our money

Woodward's problem is he doesn't want anywhere springing up which people will go to instead of Fareham. Bit of a flaw in his argument though. Everywhere is closing in Fareham and there are a lot more better places to go to already.

[wendy]

That Fareham Borough Council objects to the proposed redevelopment of Whiteley
centre on the grounds that the proposal:
(a) Will severely affect the vitality and viability of Fareham Town Centre and
undermine its ability to function as a Secondary Regional Centre in
accordance with the South East Plan.
(b) Will severely affect the delivery of an appropriately scaled and diverse district
centre for the future North of Fareham Strategic Development Area required
by the South East Plan.
(c) Is over-scaled with regard to the purpose and function of the centre to serve
the needs of the local Whiteley population.

Not surprisingly Woodward is objecting to the change in use of Whiteley Village , even though he criticises what's there. I was wondering why there was such a flurry of activity on WF and nothing on here. If the stategic plan is to reduce traffic then surely Whiteley residents would be making less journeys to Fareham anyway. Regardless of the rights or wrongs we have again two councils with opposing ideas and we residents stuck in the middle. How much did Fareham spend on consultants DTZ I wonder and how much I wonder will the two councils spend on fighting this. Dont worry though it's only our money

If USS wants to spend the money then fine. I've long ago made my peace with what's on offer at Whiteley Village. The parking charges at Fareham combined with what little is left in the way of shops means that I hardly go there. Woodward's master plan has been unravelling for some time. If he keeps penalizing people for shopping in Fareham, then the people with money, e.g. the ones with cars and the desire for diversity, will shop elsewhere. He can bleat all he wants but he can't make people shop there by attempting to stop improvements somewhere else.

What Whiteley has to do with N. Fareham (i.e Knowle) seems rather vague. The travel infrastructure between the 2 is non-existant so why would this be a problem. More likely outcome is that by producing a decent, diverse shopping centre at Knowle, with free parking, this will decimate what's left of Fareham Centre. "Just a short drive into the countryside for a pleasant, modern shopping experience - come to Knowle (near Fareham)!'

More and diverse shops in Whiteley can only be a good thing for us and our close neighbours. The extra houses I can do without but there are those pesky government targets to consider. The hotel is needed by the business community in Whiteley which last time I checked provided a huge source of income to the councils.

[StephenR]

..and of course as Swanbrow said when setting the parking charges at 4 hours - why would anyone want to stay longer than that in Fareham? It's a fair question. It's not a major shopping centre, public transport access from Whiteley is non existent or involves an 'exciting' trip through the rising bollards. With Southampton just a few minutes more to travel with city shopping why would anyone bother going to Fareham.

[happy_days]

I've pretty much given up on shopping in Fareham - the increased parking charges and specifically the introduction of Sunday charging is a factor, as is the loss of Woolworths. It is a shame that the planned Debenhams went t**s-up and I'm sure that there is a story to come out there.

I tend to nip into Portsmouth on a Saturday morning - not cheap to park, but a much better range. West Quay is a better bet on a Sunday as it is lovely and quiet before midday and again the range of shops makes the parking charges more bearable.

Fareham's USP was the free Sunday parking - struggling to see another reason to go there now.

[StephenR]

stop press - Woody has just spotted FBC have employed DTZ as consultants Maybe he can ask Woodward how much they are paying them
Why does one planning authority employ consulatants to check the consultants employed by another planning authority? Do they know there is a recession? Do they care? Would they spend their own money like that?

[StephenR]

I'm still puzzled that if Woodward is such a self proclaimed expert in retail development, his ' they should have asked me' quote still reverberates in the ears, why does he need to employ consultants. Couldn't FBC' s own planning department understand what was being built. After all he took such glee when he found out it was being rebuilt what did he think was going to go there? A newsagent and a betting shop?

[StephenR]

This is interesting as it indicates a substantial increase in vehicle volumes which HCC should of course object to unless there is an improvemnt in the road infrastructure paid for of course by the developers. So who is telling the truth here?

Because south of the motorway means additional traffic for East Whiteley what conditions will WPC and WCC put on the development? Probably none as they just see ££££££££££ signs in front of their eyes and a new office but we live in hope.

The redevelopment proposals go far beyond what is required to act as such a local town centre. As designed, it would effectively become an out-of-centre sub-regional shopping mall, filled mainly with national multiple retailers, rather than a multi-purpose local town centre, occupied by a mix of retail and service uses, and multiple and independent retailers. We consider that the proposed scheme would attract substantial trade from south of the motorway, and from areas to the east and west outside Whiteley.

[StephenR]

more interesting stuff:

It would comprise mainly large standard shop units and medium space users, which are designed for national multiple retailers, particularly those selling fashion goods and homewares. As such it would be unsuitable for many of the types of shops and service businesses which would be needed for it to function as a multi-purpose town centre for the local community; for example beauticians, hairdressers, estate agents, specialist foods shops, hot-food take-aways, public houses, hardware shops, repair establishments, sandwich bars, dry cleaners, etc. Indeed it is most unlikely that the owners would be willing to let the new shops to such traders. It would also be unsuitable for small independent businesses – and again it is very unlikely that the owners would wish to let it to independent businesses because of the adverse impact on value.

So who is right and what exactly can we expect from the revamped village?

[StephenR]

This where the 'Not joined up' strategy really shows in my opinion:

1.41 The proposed hierarchy of centres is
Town Centre: Fareham
District Centres: Locks Heath, Portchester, and North of Fareham Strategic
Development Area.
Local Centres: Stubbington, Titchfield, Warsash, Park Gate, Gull Coppice (Whiteley),
Broadlaw Walk (Fareham) and Highlands Road (Fareham)
1.42 To maintain the balanced hierarchy between the centres in the Borough, the future
comparison floorspace projections will be split on a range based on the existing 77.6%-

So Fareham see Gull Coppice as Local Centre much like park Gate but Winchester see Whiteley as a district centre much like Locks Heath. Why would a place like Whiteley have two centres, one local and one district. It makes even less sense when the land that the local centre is on could have perhaps housed an expanded school ( infants and junior). Whiteley is a bit like a bus with two drivers. It's no wonder we're going round in circles.

[wendy]

This is an odd state of affairs. Every so often I see yet another announcement or planning application for this redevelopment. The ladies at the Tesco tills are unsure what's happening with the 'big' new Tesco, the additional homes seem to come and go, and the village is still as it was, only more so.

What is it that the owners are going to change that will make a significant difference? Bigger units don't necessarily equate to better shopping. Eating/drinking establishments will only thrive if they are 'outside' the 6pm curfew, like Frankie & Benny's. Fast food establishments will only bring smells, litter, and unnecessary car journeys.

Right now, there are only a few shops I actually go into anymore, and mostly walk out of without having purchased anything. Their big draw is the free parking, so let's hope this will attract a few decent retailers. If not, I'll carry on shopping in Southampton, Winchester and online.

[normalbloke]

Nothing is changing about Tesco, the new plans show it remaining completely as is, including the petrol station.